An Interview with Victoria Haigh
"Nature is nature (...) interfere with it at your peril. Man made is never going to overhaul what God created.“ ~ Victoria Haigh
(The interview was done in 2014 // R.A.)
Victoria Haigh and the case of her oldest daughter made many headlines over the last couple of years. Victoria was a very prominent and successful race horse jockey and trainer in the UK. There were disputes with her daughter’s father over contact and eventually the case ended up in the UK family courts.
During the proceedings Victoria reported that her daughter had told her that her father is sexually abusing her. The response of the system was swift and cruel – the girl was taken away from Victoria and her father got sole custody of her. Victoria was accused of coaching the girl and being an emotionally abusive mother (see also this article in the UK Telegraph). Never one to buckle under, she then went public with her case and stressed further investigations. For an alledged breach of a no-contact order (no contact with her daughter that is) Victoria was eventually put on trial and sentenced to 3 years in prison. After her release she moved to France with her youngest daughter (not related to the alledged molester of her older daughter) to re-start her career as horse-trainer.
As writer, thinking person, mother, wife and woman I am not interested in gender warfare, fathers vs mothers and other red herrings, but I am interested in justice and to get answers to obvious questions. Why are a mother and child punished so severly for simply talking about sexual abuse and saying that it has occured? Why is a woman sentenced to 3 years in prison for saying hello to her own child? And to what extent was this mother surveillanced, by whom and why? However tasty various legal hacks may try to explain to me the judicial logic in the treatment of Victoria and her daughter, her punishment is out of proportion and many details of her case are plainly bizarre. She and her child were treated entirely unjust and her case reeks of nothing else but of authoritarianism and institutional misogyny.
I am delighted Victoria agreed to do this interview with me, which turned into a very interesting conversation between two women and mothers.
"They will return like a flock of birds back to the nest when they can and are able."
Red Mother You have moved to France after your release from a 3 year prison sentence (for breach of a no-contact order) and a brief stay in the UK with further “strange events” that got published in the press (I believe, you were again accused of trying to contact your daughter). You restarted your career as race horse trainer in France after the events in the UK and maybe you can talk about how you were able to find your professional mojo again after all that has happened to you over the last 5 years.
"Tough times don’t last, tough people do!"
Victoria Haigh “My courage has never been in doubt and at the end of the day I am only doing what I know what to do, nothing more, nothing less. Horses have always been my life. As long as there are clients willing to pay me to train racehorses, and a racing authority willing to grant me with a public training license, I will work with horses. What happened to me overthe last 5 years is not what my life has been about. I achieved a lot before I ever stepped foot into a secret family court and still have much that I want to achieve. Finding my professional mojo was all about raising my self esteem and confidence. I am still the same person who trained all those winners in England and that can’t ever be taken away or erased. Tough times don’t last, tough people do! Of course it hasn’t been easy but good people have supported me. The sport I did, a national hunt jockey, is a very dangerous sport and I have had jockeys that I have ridden with which die in a race or become paralysed as the result of a fall. I rode with the best jockeys of an era, tough, competitive jockeys and I needed mental toughness to go out there and race ride with the best of them. My courage has never been in doubt and at the end of the day I am only doing what I know what to do, nothing more, nothing less.
Red Mother Coming back to the actual court case and your imprisonment, how did you experience all of this? I mean from a psychological point of view? One day you were a successful sought after race horse trainer and woman of celebrity, then you lost your daughter to the man you had accused of sexually molesting her, then you ended up in prison and so on. I mean, all this is a horror story, and people generally lack the imagination to grasp the ordeal you went through. Is there a particular moment that can best describe your experiences?
Victoria Haigh Actually I never accused the man in the first instance, his own daughter did although she didn’t know she was describing a crime against her, but I knew, she was just showing me what had happened to her. Young children do not understand sex, sexual assaults or things like that especially when their father is telling them that they love them. What happened to me was extremely traumatic because there was a whole team of people being paid by the State to break me down. It was incredible really how when I conquered one of them, another one was instantly drafted in full of energy whilst my energy was waining. Psychologically it was a real strain as all one was trying to do was never lose sight of the truth, but actually the State were only ever interested in the cover up of the truth. I had never experienced anything like it before and probably will never again. It was the most bizarre experience of my life so far. I was pretty disgusted at a system that could put a good, caring woman in prison. I learnt a lot about politics and Governments at least, as before that period, my life was very one dimensional. I rode horses, read the form book, looked at horse sales catalogues, went horse racing, and basically lived a very charmed life.
My young daughter had her own pony, international holidays to nice locations such as Cuba and Barbados and wore children’s designer clothes. She had the unconditional love of her very strong protective mother and step siblings. I never knew a child’s wellbeing would ever be compromised by a State system. I was always under a belief of growing up in the UK that children were protected and safe. I was extremely naive in this belief. I now have a second daughter who is almost living the same life of my first daughter except she is bi-lingual.
Red Mother You are saying, that the State was only ever interested in the cover up of the truth?
Victoria Haigh They do what they do. The police do not investigate the crimes. If one complains, the complaints are investigated by those one lays the complaint against and one is sent in a spin cycle of chaos. Then it is the complainant or victim or associate of the victim who begins to have court orders put on them! An innocent person can soon become a criminal, just like me! It was all a complete smoke screen to avoid achieving any kind of justice.
“The cruelty that I saw dished out was not normal. It was an extreme level of goading, acts to cause absolute distress of not only me but my child. I have never experienced cruelty like it.”
Red Mother Can you give us examples such as from the police inquiry, how evidence was treated at court, and how lawyers treated you?
Victoria Haigh In the beginning I was treated well, but soon very quickly myself and my daughter were treated with disdain and we endured extreme inhumane acts against us. The cruelty that I saw dished out was not normal. It was an extreme level of goading, acts to cause absolute distress of not only me but my child. I have never experienced cruelty like it. It went much further than bullying. It was extreme mental torture all being paid for by taxpayers who were paying the wages of these state workers.
Red Mother When I followed your case in the media, in particular also the so-called “re-trial” of your case, I always felt that they are also making an example of you, and that they took a particular pleasure to break you because you are the embodiment of an attractive, successful, independent woman who also very proudly and openly was (and is) a single mum. I always felt that an excessive amount of hate was thrown at you for speaking out a truth that you believe in, namely that your child is sexually molested by her own father. As we know, most sexual abuse of children happens through their own relatives, and there is nothing per se “unusual” about the sexual abuse of children by their fathers. What are your views about the hate of the system against you?
“My experience with the case in the courts felt like I was living in some parallel universe where black is white, wrong is right and no one seemed sane. They all seemed completely insane! It was a kind of human being that I had never encountered before, with no empathy, compassion or the way normal people put themselves in the other persons shoes.”
Victoria Haigh It was a real shock as I was very well respected in my industry of horse racing. My peers were hugely successful people and I had always mixed with successful people. I mean I was invited by the Queen to Windsor castle for drinks etc. I was the horse racing Ambassador for Victor Chandler inc. I was the first female jockey to ride a winner at the Military meeting at Sandown, I mean I was high profile from time to time. To be submerged in a mysogynistic world like the State system/child protection industry was so alien to me. Yes, people were jealous of me in my industry which is natural but it was a professional jealousy and nothing more. My experience with the case in the courts felt like I was living in some parallel universe where black is white, wrong is right and no one seemed sane. They all seemed completely insane! It was a kind of human being that I had never encountered before, with no empathy, compassion or the way normal people put themselves in the other persons shoes. No one seemed interested in protecting a beautiful innocent young child and her mother. Even how these people talk made no sense. I remember them using words like “unremarkable” in a way I had never used that word before. I was apparently histrionic and manipulative according to their assessments but in my world this translated as enthusiastic, passionate and smart which were all positive attributes to remain successful. It felt like the dark ages in those courts and it doesn’t surprise me they are still wearing clothes that are 100’s of years old. Their “uniform” has never being modernised just like their attitude to women like myself! I really thought the world of horse racing was full of male chauvinists, but honestly, I will never think like that again, as at least we are celebrated when our hard work and talent pays off.
"... they do what they do like bureaucratic Dr Mengeles."
Red Mother My experience is, that even if the truth is starring them in the face, they still keep on constructing their narrative against the victims, you and your daughter for example. They have to do that to legally justify seperating a mother from a child. It is such an unholy and barbaric act, and they do what they do like bureaucratic Dr Mengeles. It really is insane and revolting. You also had an infamous “retrial” that was overseen by the then President of the Family Court Sir Nicholas Wall. What purpose did that serve?
"I was the mouthpiece for my child so by shutting me down, my child was shut down too."
Victoria Haigh My retrial was an overall tactic by the judiciary, police, ministry of justice at the highest level, to shut me down once and for all with their utmost effort of propaganda, blackmail and whatever else they threw at me. I was not going to stay silent therefore they used their well trodden tactic of pulling my reputation to pieces. To discredit a witness is how the criminals defend themselves. I was the mouthpiece for my child so by shutting me down, my child was shut down too.
Red Mother Well, they have to tear a woman’s character apart to construct an imaginary evil personality otherwise they can be legally challenged. Why does the UK establishment hate women “like you”? Was it your independence and success that they envied, the single mother hood that became a taboo again thanks to the cultural war fare of the chauvinist far right that has crept back into the British legal system? Is it the sexual abuse that you dared to talk about? Was it because you put up a fight and did not buckle down that they came down so heavily on you? I mean, the possible social undercurents seem kind of endless, but actually none of this explains how loaded their punishment for your so called “trespassing” of their rules was. There are acts of murderous and soul destroying violence, including child sexual molestation, that do not get punished with 3 years imprisonment. And all you simply did was to say hello to your daughter when you saw her sitting in her father’s car at a petrol station. What are you making out of it all?
“Children are still being abused within the many systems, and won’t be listened to until they are grown up, when they will then be called a “survivor”.
Victoria Haigh I think this is easily summed up by what is happening in the UK right now regarding historic child sex abuse. I mean if it is historic and nothing has ever been done to stop it, then surely it is all still going on now, isn’t it? The only difference is the children are still being abused within the many systems, and won’t be listened to until they are grown up, when they will then be called a “survivor”. Up until then these kids are “surviving” when they should be living a lovely safe and secure child hood. We all know what happens in the UK to whistleblowers, they are either murdered, imprisoned or put in the looney bin. I do not see myself as any different to a whistleblower like the parents of the Asian gangs who were treated appallingly or the children from the care homes who were silenced. How can a parent be arrested for reporting the abuse and grooming of their own child in the UK. This is a disgrace in a democratic country, just like all those children in the care homes being raped and no one listening to them. I am totally ashamed to be British. I am ashamed of the Government, the royal family, the judiciary the whole murky lot of them. In France there is a huge difference and they know here the UK is a country of cover ups. The French would never tolerate forced adoption for example and the stature of the mother is very well guarded by the judiciary instead of being thrown to the wolves like in the UK. I have to say and the French no doubt will disagree but this country should be proud of how it is treating society in general. Yes they have problems but the country would be shut down if the goings on of the UK happened here for example the child snatching the adoption industry, the forced ceasarians, homes being stolen, businesses being stolen, old people being stolen along with their assets. I mean I have never seen anything like it and hope never to again. A lot of money is being attained by corrupt measures in the UK and no one seems to be able or want to stop the runaway train.
Red Mother Were you surveillanced?
"All the (...) oppressive tactics to scare you into shutting up."
Victoria Haigh I was under surveillance, phones tapped, computer hacked all the usual techniques. Trumped up charges, arrests, being detained, being threatened with being sectioned. All the State oppressive tactics to scare you into shutting up.
Red Mother Have you got an explaination why they did that and went to such length?
"There is evidence through MOSAC (Mothers of Sexually Abused Children, a Charity) that women are being groomed to have babies and the babies are being ‘won’ in a ‘custody battle’ by the peodophile father (...) The mothers in all of these cases are gagged and prevented from having any contact with their children, knowing at the same time their children are not safe from child sexual abuse."
Victoria Haigh Probably money is the usual reason. I mean if 80% off child sex abuse happens in the home, that is an awful lot of taxpayers money to invest into the private lives of the people. It is much cheaper for the State to turn a blind eye. I have said many times before, one just has to follow the money in anything. Can you imagine how much the CPS would spend prosecuting these 80% of cases? You just need to look at the amount of family members compared to strangers, who abuse children are charged. It is much easier to bully and silence a whistleblower mother and her child, than pay for a criminal trial. It is also looking like a fact now through all of the intelligence that I have seen, that the CPS will not become involved in a case of child sex abuse/incest when the case is in the secret family court. Whether or not the CPS know how evidence is not permitted in these secret courts regarding child sex abuse or not it is plain to see from my investigations that the CPS are choosing not to investigate these crimes of child sex abuse properly. The CPS I believe are deciding that a alleged peodophile father can very easily use the defence of a custody battle if he was ever taken to trail which means many children are not being protected properly by the State. These can leave a huge dangerous loophole for devious fathers. I mean it seems that the prosecution figures show that a man can abuse his own child but if he abuses someone else’s he will be prosecuted. There is evidence through MOSAC (Mothers of Sexually Abused Children, a Charity) that women are being groomed to have babies and the babies are being ‘won’ in a ‘custody battle’ by the peodophile father. If a paodophile father uses this as a template which according to the patterns we have seen, these men are using, very successfully, the length and breadth of the UK the same tactic applying for contact through these secret courts accusing the mother of alienating them from their child, in most cases they win custody, never get prosecuted and have freedom and the law on their side to rape their own children under complete protection of the State through the court orders they achieve. The mothers in all of these cases are gagged and prevented from having any contact with their children, knowing at the same time their children are not safe from child sexual abuse. It is torture for the child and the mother. The cases I know where the mothers are allowed supervised contact, they are still tortured seeing their child slipping rapidly downhill and knowing their child is being sexually abused, but they cannot say anything anymore due to the threat of losing contact with their child.
Red Mother Yes, that is indeed true. I have heard of cases (and seen evidence in form of contact reports) in which children describe during supervised contact, in front of supervising social workers, how they are hit against the wall by their fathers and fondled and the supervising social workers (all of them temp staff and agency workers) continue to note down that they have “no concerns” over the child but find the mother’s responses to these disclosures concerning. It is so mad, and I am not at all surprised if affected women eventually loose their minds – it is miracle how anybody can mentally survive such things and not end up taking the gun. That no mother has done that yet, speaks more about their social conditioning then anything else. Some things are just too cruel. I have observed again and again that women get trialed as bad psychotic witches for speaking out against obvious and real abuse and for fighting their corner. As mentioned before, the system has to vilify them to legally justify to seperate a mother from a child and to let the abuse continue. It is a particular cruel kind of mental torture. A sort of Guatanomo Bay for protective mothers and abused children. What kind of psychological assaults have you experienced against yourself? What kind of names were you called in the name of “child protection”?
“I was described as causing emotional distress to my daughter after the State ripped her from my safety as she cried constantly when they were allowing us both supervised contact. In their warped system this was my fault and I was again accused of emotionally abusing her.”
Victoria Haigh Well I have never been one to take name calling on board but I have been described as emotionally abusing my child by reporting abuse as I was told by the police, a child disclosing abuse is more distressed than when experiencing the actual abuse which again I find turning tables on mothers for this reason quite preposterous. We are blatantly being steered as mothers by the Establishment to accept our children being raped!! Like I said earlier, these State people are insane. I was described as causing emotional distress to my daughter after the State ripped her from my safety as she cried constantly when they were allowing us both supervised contact. In their warped system this was my fault and I was again accused of emotionally abusing her. It was incredulous how 100% of the blame for everything was put on my shoulders, and not only that but how these morons get away with it all. I am still surprised some International aid body has not gone in to rescue these citizens and children who are being raped, stolen, thrown in prison etc. If a corrupt Government is breaking not only Human Rights but also Constitutional rights then surely outside aid needs to step in. I should never have been put in prison nor should the many parents be gagged and prevented from speaking out. It is outrageous and if no aid comes,then there needs to be a revolution in the UK. I know there are between 7 and 12 women fleeing every month from the UK and that has been going on for years. Who is going to put a stop to all of this.
“I am still surprised some International aid body has not gone in to rescue these citizens and children who are being raped, stolen, thrown in prison etc. If a corrupt Government is breaking not only Human Rights but also Constitutional rights then surely outside aid needs to step in.”
Red Mother What are your views on lawyers by now and did you ever have the impression that they mislead you and made it worse for you, acting solely as bureacrats of a system they protect by all means necessary, leading you like a lamb to the slaughter?
Victoria Haigh The lawyers are truly pathetic and scared of their pay packet at every turn. I find it disgraceful how cowardly these people are but really, they are all cowards in this system. They are either a coward or a peodophile in my experience. They have to tow the line. They do not care about child protection in the civil courts and time and again I was advised by barristers to withdraw allegations, not to mention child abuse in the family court or I would lose my child to her alleged abuser. What sort of advice and what sort of system is this? It seems that this system only benefits peodophiles and no one else, and everyone is blackmailed to keep this status quo. What an extremely sad state of affairs for a developed country.
If I was the Queen I would be fighting for my people and certainly not silencing them in the most barbaric ways. She did tell me that her country is run by the different Ministrys and she does not have a say, but really she should be protecting her subjects especially the children from corruption shouldn’t she? I am surprised they still keep the Royal family in the UK like they do. I maybe cynical but I think the tourism revenue created by them saves their skin.
Red Mother When you were in prison, how were you treated and how were other women treated and can you describe the kind of women you met there? What kind of crimes were they in for?
“The women in prison ALL had crimes committed against them that were much worse than the crimes they had committed to be imprisoned including myself. This again sums up the terrible treatment of women in the UK. “
Victoria Haigh “The women in prison ALL had crimes committed against them that were much worse than the crimes they had committed to be imprisoned including myself. This again sums up the terrible treatment of women in the UK. “It truly is a terrible country to live in. I looked around at these women and realised instantly that these women needed help and certainly not locking up. Many were products of the UK care system and it goes without saying were sexually abused in care. I was very saddened by what I saw in that place.
Red Mother What happened to the pregnant inmates and inmates who already had children? Do you know of blackmail of inmates? In particular, did the prison authorities, police, social services aso ever try to blackmail inmates through their children? Have you ever heard of such stories?
Victoria Haigh Funnily enough “criminal” women got a much fairer bargain with their kids than the mothers dragged through the civil secret courts, where the children are snatched in complete secrecy.
"It is a total disgrace really when you think about my only “crime” was sticking up and supporting my child who disclosed abuse."
I had conversations with the employees in the prison who told me that drug addicts still made good mothers, which I found a farcical situation as I had never taken a drug in my life and never even saw a drug until I was 35 years old. I mean in reality and after I realised, of course a drug addict can also be a good mother along with mothers who suffer with depression, are disabled, religious, etc etc. Being a mother is the most natural thing in the world. These drug addicts were visited by their children in prison and even women who were found guilty of murder were still allowed to see their children, but me, as much as I begged for my daughter to be brought to see me, it was never allowed. It is a total disgrace really when you think about my only “crime” was sticking up and supporting my child who disclosed abuse. What a complete stupid system is this?
Red Mother A lot of women who went through similar ordeals like you suffer from post traumatic stress disorder symptoms such as depression, nightmares, dissassocation and sometimes also what is commonly named psychosis resulting from supressed emotions such as rage. The outfall from such an abuse by the state against innocent women and children can be so severe it can do damage for generations. How are you coping with the emotional fall out of your ordeal?
"No one can stop time or nature. They can try but they fight a losing battle. There is always a bond between a mother and her children that can never be broken."
Victoria Haigh I cope because a child hood is a tiny portion of ones life. The one thing that I needed to focus on, was that my daughter came back to me the same person that I was when she was stolen. I mean it is very easy to slide into a world of depression, prescribed drugs, alcohol, but I have a life, ambitions too and I am damned if I am going to let a Government system destroy that. I have been gifted with one life, I have choices and sometimes man plans, God laughs, but on the whole I am steering my own ship and there are rough waters in a big sea.
Strong women breed strong children and one day, we will both be able to laugh at the dramas in our life as serious as they have been. She will be a stronger woman and I will be a stronger mother and grandmother. No one can stop time or nature. They can try but they fight a losing battle. There is always a bond between a mother and her children that can never be broken. I also have a younger child and life is full on. I work, I care for my daughter, I run a fledgling business in a foreign country so I need to be on the ball. I had a whole new racing industry to learn in a foreign language with no friends or family around. I took on a huge task and I need all my energy to become as successful here in France than I was in the UK. I really do not have time for any disorders but I still am extremely grief stricken at the loss of my eldest daughter, but I just have to manage the grief.
“I was harassed, bullied, followed, phones were tapped, propaganda was written, cover ups were so live that I was becoming tired at all of the corruption. No child is safe in the UK and if they thought that I was going to continue paying taxes to a Government that allowed child sex abuse, they underestimated my tenacity.”
Red Mother What do you think happened to your daughter after you left so suddenly?
Victoria Haigh She was brainwashed, alienated from me, was told I abandoned her by the despicable people that call themselves human beings. I didn’t leave suddenly either. I was prevented from seeing my daughter a long while before I left the UK. I was harassed, bullied, followed, phones were tapped, propaganda was written, cover ups were so live that I was becoming tired at all of the corruption. No child is safe in the UK and if they thought that I was going to continue paying taxes to a Government that allowed child sex abuse, they underestimated my tenacity.
The next story to come from these freaks were that my child did not want to see me. I am not sure if anyone could be as cruel to an animal as these people were to my daughter and I. I do not trust them, believe them, want to even communicate with them. Like I said, my peers are hugely successful people and I will not tolerate the monkeys (sorry real monkeys) that have tried to ruin my life and sanity.
Red Mother What would you like to say your daughter, and all children who lost their mothers due to family court injustice and incompetence?
“Nature is nature, like I said, interfere with it at your peril. Man made is never going to overhaul what God created. My daughter knew me to be a kind protective mother for the first 6 years of her life. I am not dead and she knows that.“
Victoria Haigh Well my daughter knows what happened but the problem is her immaturity that comes with being a child. She has no access to justice, money or freedom at the moment. It is just a case of never losing sight of the truth, of love and of nature. Child hood is a small part of a life time and these children and their mothers need to focus on their life down the road and try to limit the damage as much as possible. I have obviously come across many cases along the way and actually as bad as my case is, it is not the worst, not by a long way. My daughter can be unbrainwashed, she will survive, she will have me whenever she wants me and her beautiful little sister who is almost a twin apart from being 10 kilos heavier! Nature is nature, like I said, interfere with it at your peril.
"They will return like a flock of birds back to the nest when they can and are able."
Man made is never going to overhaul what God created. My daughter knew me to be a kind protective mother for the first 6 years of her life. I am not dead and she knows that. The rest of the kids need to bide their time. The time will come when they can make their own choices away from what the State want them to do, and for the mothers, they have to wait. They may miss their babies childhoods but a child is only lent to you anyway. They will return like a flock of birds back to the nest when they can and are able.
Thank you for this conversation, Vicky.